On Monday, December 12th, MTWC hosted a follow-up call to give people an opportunity to ask any questions that were not answered during the webinar held the previous Thursday. What follows is the transcript of that call.

Transcript

Bill Kraus:

I’m here.

 

Maria:

Good.  Will Amy be joining us?

 

Bill:

She’s supposed to be, yeah.

 

Maria:

Do we have anybody else on the call?

 

Ann:

I’m on the call.  I’m Ann O’Neil and I’m with the Mass DOT and Tina Lee had asked that I listen in and see what was going on with everyone.

 

Maria:

That is great.  Anyone else?  I guess we can get started.  Maybe some other people will join us.

 

 

Maria:

Ann, would you like to start?

 

Ann:

I missed the first half of it.  I was under the impression that Tina said they were going to go through everything again today.  I’m basically just listening.

 

Maria:

Alright.  I’ll let you do this Bill.

 

 

Amy:

Hi.  It’s Amy.

 

Bill:

Hi Amy.

 

Amy is with the US Department of Labor.  She is the coordinator of the education programs.

 

We have two folks with us today.  Tina is here with us and who else.

 

Greylen:

Greylen Jones with Schneider Trucking Company.

 

Bill:

Great.  Dave is not able to join us.  He is someplace in the air.  I will be glad to answer his questions for him.

What we did, Tina, when we had the call the other day is we basically went through the registered apprenticeship of how it works, what the components are and so on.  Basically the registered apprenticeship program is a nationwide program.  There are about 570,000 registered apprentices across the United States right now.  We have about a thousand occupations that are apprenticeable.

Apprenticeable is a strange word.  It kind of means that it’s a certain skill set that requires both going to school and going to work.  To be a forklift driver requires some really good OJT but it’s a very short duration period.  The ones we are looking at are a little longer in duration, minimum of 2,000 hours or one year.  The programs are run across the country, like I said.  They are run by governmental agencies.  They are run by private companies.  They are run by consortiums.  They are run by union programs.  They are run by non-union programs.  They are run as little as one plumber working for his dad and companies like Schneider or JB Hunt or Werner that have thousands of apprentices.  We pretty much cover the spectrum when it comes to registered apprenticeship and who can participate.

The important part about registered apprenticeship, which I will go back into again, is it’s going to school and it’s going to work.  The individuals who are the apprentices are employees of the organization, either be it a governmental agency or a trucking company.  They do receive a wage which over time increases which is commiserate with their skill sets.  You may start at 50% of a journey worker wage and you finish at 90% or 100% as you progress through the program and you become more valuable to the individual company.

Amy, I don’t even know how many programs we have across the country anymore.  It keeps increasing.  We have a tremendous amount of programs.  The apprenticeship programs are registered by either the state government, like in the case of Wisconsin, or in the case of where I’m from in Georgia it’s registered by the federal government.  We all follow the same rules and regulations which 29 CFR 29 and 29 CFR 30.  That will be in the kit Maria will put together so individuals can look at it.

The program itself, I think you will see, is really employer driven. We take occupations and the occupation could be anything from a truck driver to a hydraulic repair person.  We customize the work process or the on-the-job piece and we also customize the schooling piece to make sure we meet the needs of the employer.

It’s a very very responsive program.  I think in our presentation last week we used the word flexible quite often because it’s really flexible to meet the needs of the employer, the governmental agency, the association and so on.  In my state in Georgia I’ve actually registered not-for-profits, I’ve registered schools.  We have eight of our community colleges now which are sponsors of programs.  That is becoming a norm right now where you would have a school act as an agent of the state or the federal government to help register apprentices.

It’s a fairly good program.  It’s pretty comprehensive.  We strive to be as responsive as possible.  I think we meeting our mark.

Our goal, of course, is to reach double registered apprenticeship and we are getting there slowly but surely.  The federal government has also given out a ton of money to support registered apprenticeship.  And that money is being made available to states, being made available to industry groups and being made available to various employers to help defer the cost of the apprenticeship programs and/or to use it to encourage participation.

That wraps it up short and sweet.  I don’t know if you want to jump in there Amy to talk about the education piece at all.  But if you don’t we’re ok.

 

Amy:

I don’t know if you covered this in your presentation but I will go over a few points of interest.

I manage registered apprenticeship college consortium.  Right now we have about 300 colleges, and some are four-year institutions, across the country that are, as we like to call them, champions of registered apprenticeship.  To join this consortium they must accept credit for prior learning for completion of a registered apprenticeship.  That is the main criteria for joining the consortium.  These colleges all have different levels of engagement in registered apprenticeship.  In addition to accepting the credit for prior learning, they also offer related instruction.  A lot of our sponsored programs like Bill mentioned in Georgia and in a few other states we have college sponsors.  It’s a new initiative that we are pushing and a lot of colleges are seeing the need to take this initiative as well.

We are working with a cohort of over 50 colleges across the country to become program sponsors.  Colleges that are members of this consortium have different ways, as I mentioned, and those are a few of them of being a part of this network.  We also share a lot of information with colleges, do a lot of outreach.  We do a number of activities to help colleges move forward with apprenticeships.  That is very exciting.

I also work a lot with secondary schools and use apprenticeships.  This is new and upcoming.  I know in Wisconsin there is transportation for apprenticeships for high school students.  I don’t know the exact details but I do know that’s an area where high school students can do an apprenticeship program.  We are expending these models and working with states to given them guidance on how to build better programs or build a program from the start for high school students.

This is one other major initiative that we have and the grants that Bill had mentioned are going to help the state move forward with this.  That is it in a nutshell.  I’d be happy to answer any questions that you might have.

 

Bill:

Did we lose everybody?

 

Ann:

I was actually asking a question but my phone was on mute and I didn’t realize it until you said did we lose everybody.

This is Ann from SCRT.  I’ve been dealing with apprenticeships and pre-apprentice programs for quite a number of years in Massachusetts.  We get a lot of federal funds from FHWA and most of our projects have on-the-job training requirements.  A contractor can either utilize a training program approved by the state or an apprenticeship program to qualify for the OJT provision in their contract.

Typically what I find is the federal program with the USDOT relates more of the skilled trades.  There are so many apprenticeable occupations in the transportation industry that should be encouraged to be developed, especially in the area of quality assurance and safety inspectors.  I’ve looked at the apprenticeable occupation list numerous times and I’m always just taken back that there is no real push for a concerted effort to develop those as apprenticeable occupations in the industry.  I’m interested in figuring out if you guys are aware of any state that is actively working to expand the transportation related apprenticeships beyond the typical skilled trade areas.

 

Bill:

That is a very insightful question.  Before Brenna Helprin left, Brenna used to be the Associate Commissioner down there, we were talking more and more about this.  What was happening is many states and many of the federal contracts require a little thing called trainees.  Trainees is a very very short term training program.  When you leave after a traineeship you basically just had the appetizer plate; you haven’t had the full occupation.

What I’m realizing in Georgia is many of the contracts that are being given out go to companies. And the companies themselves don’t necessarily have programs.  And programs for an operating engineer or a laborer or some of these other occupations are quite long.  They want people who are skilled in those occupations immediately.  That causes a problem.  You just can’t wave a wand and create a truck driver or a backhoe operator.  Many of them are going to the laborer occupations.  We do have many of these occupations that you spoke about with quality assurance, safety and so on.  I think we made our first soiree into this when we started working with the Federal Railroad Administration.

Now that we’re looking at a very large investment in the infrastructure of our country this is something that we will address with the national office to see how close we can get.  You want to encourage participation of under-represented within these jobs but at the same time you want to ensure that people will be adequately trained and these occupations are filled.

We have work ahead of us. What you are saying is nothing new to me.  I’m sure Amy has heard this also in DC.  We will take it back to our principals and tell them there is plenty of opportunity here, especially if the President-Elect is going to have a tremendous infusion of money for the transportation sector.

 

Maria:

One of the reasons I’m very interested in this is that through some of these apprenticeships if they are sponsored through the community colleges or otherwise that the apprentices can get an Associate’s Degree.  In the Midwest I’ve been talking to our DOT HR directors and I’m hearing can’t get enough snowplow drivers, we’re having shortages in IT.  I think there is that opportunity to get apprentices in for those occupations, especially if they are tied to a credential that would allow them to grow and stay in the DOT and move up and get a Bachelor’s Degree and become part of that workforce.

 

Ann:

Internally I think that DOTs address it better.  I’m looking at our contracting community and our contractor base and who they are hiring for employees and I think there are so many opportunities to extend apprenticeships that is not currently being tapped into.  I don’t see there is any direction to move towards those new occupations.

I’ve met in extensively in Massachusetts with our contractor base and they are all very very interested in an apprenticeship program for a number of titles that they would use internally and not necessarily out on a roadway project.  There doesn’t seem to be a lot of support for them to move in that direction.

 

Bill:

In your state in Massachusetts it is actually run by the state government.

 

Ann:

Yes it is.

 

Bill:

I would say you as a state entity working together with your state on a counterpart who is in the apprenticeship office, you may be able to make some really good contacts with them.  In our presentation last week we had a link and it has all the names in there.

 

Ann:

I deal with them on a regular basis.  It’s Henry Machucheo and he’s excellent.  But I think because right now I don’t know if it’s the same nationwide but certainly in Massachusetts there is a huge focus on health care apprenticeship and manufacturing apprenticeships that I don’t think anybody currently has put a lot of thought and energy into transportation related.

 

Bill:

It’s interesting.  The gentleman from the trucking company who is on with us also is experiencing a similar kind of issue where you have technical and community colleges produces folks with CDLs but there are strong restrictions in terms of getting behind the wheel unless you have a certain amount of over-the-road time.  There are some conflicting issues that are going on here.  We seem to be in the middle of it because we have an employer base that is screaming for skilled employees.  We have some government agencies that are very traditional in the way that they think.  The employers are, and in the trucking industry in particular, the insurance piece is a major party here.

There are so many of these aspects going around that we in the apprenticeship office find ourselves in the middle of a lot of these discussions.  You are right.  We have focused a lot of time on computerization, IT, health care and so on.  The fundamental program that we’ve always run, our traditional program, is the trades.  We have not lost sight of those in any way at all.  But these other ones with safety positions and quality assurance are something that gets integrated into almost every occupation we have now.

Just know we are on it.  It’s going to take a little bit of time, especially with the change of administration but we’re on it.  I would suggest that you keep contacting your state person.  There are things that you can do there that we can’t do.

 

Ann:

I’m very involved with Henry and he’s very responsive.  It’s just that as public servants the focus changes on a pretty regular basis as to what the priority is going to be.  Right now, like I said, I think he’s tied up with the manufacturer and health care and advancing that.

 

00:28:48

Right.  I would say two things.  One, follow the money.  That is really important.

 

When I was a Jersey director, and you’ve probably heard something like this before, I was dealing with some localities that actually mandated registered apprenticeship.  Things can happen on the local and state levels that we are not able to achieve on the federal level.

 

 

Ann:

We actually even said it was our federal money that came into this state with the aura money that had come in.  They actually increased their apprenticeship requirement to 20% of the total work hours on all our projects.

 

Bill:

There is a lot of flexibility that you have that you can really do there.  I don’t even want to imagine how long that would take to figure out on the federal level.

 

Tina:

This is Tina with Federal Highway Administration.  Thank you so much Ann for bringing that issue up.  I really appreciate it because I believe in thinking outside the box.  We may be able to possibly pilot something like that.

I currently cover Massachusetts effective November 1st.  I am really interested in doing something to make sure we have long term positions and not just trainees.  I think you, Ann, and I feel on the same level that there is a need for that.  Thank you for bringing this issue to the table.  We are going to continue to work on that endeavor. We know from reviewing those types of transportation projects and the infrastructure is just growing.

The first step is to have a conversation about it.  This is the first step and set those wheels turning and see what we can get going.  It’s baby steps.  I’m very much open to trying something out to make it work.  Thank you for that.

 

Greylen:

I’d like to interject as an employer.  I represent Schneider and we are probably one of the largest trucking companies in the US.  Everything that you said about the insurance and the restrictions you are absolutely right.  Some of the things that we have done in the industry is that we’ve reached out to the military.  What has happened is that we’ve found that a lot of the young men and women that are serving are in that age group that we can’t hire anyone until they are 21 years of age with a CDL.  A lot of them go in the military and they start driving at 18 and do everything that CDL drivers do.  Again, that’s just a restriction, that’s a number.  From an insurance standpoint most companies can’t hire until the age of 26.  That is definitely a major barrier.

What we found is that you’re right.  Sooner or later people are going to wise up and they are going to change.  It’s just like if they are old enough to go into the military they should be old enough to make the decision of whether to smoke or not. That is a bad analogy but they are adults.

What we’ve done is reached out to the military and put an apprenticeship program wrapped around the use of their GI bill to help create that bridge, incentive if you will, for them to go into our industry because (and I’s said this time and time again and I know I’m speaking to the choir here) without transportation there is no manufacturing and there is no national growth.  Right now with the average age of drivers being north of 55 years old, more people are getting out of the industry versus going in.  The other piece of that is the lack of reality around the awareness of what it can do for a Baby Boomer to put them on the path of their dreams a lot faster because of the income that they can generate with a very short training period.  And then lining up with a large transportation company like Schneider that will hire at age 21.

 

Bill:

You are making some really valid points.  When I spoke to Dave Harrison the other day, who is with Fast Port right now, there are some companies that have really figured it out.  Some that will take the command to signature and some log books from the military and bring folks across.  So I think project is really good.

There are some trucking companies actually do pre-apprenticeships in Georgia.  There are a lot of elements that are happening and I don’t think we can actually get the information out fast enough of the different pilots that are happening.  Transports and Fast Port are trying to do that and I’m sure they will help do that in terms of getting information out.

In terms of the transportation piece, Tina you really hit it on the head.  I know when Brenna was there she was able to bring some new thinking into the way things were happening.  I’m doing a lot of work on these super projects, these mega projects.  What I’m seeing is OFCCP which is the Office of Federal Contract Compliance is actually trying to get women and minorities into these occupations.  Again, a lot of the employers are looking for people who are pre-loaded and pre-trained.  Trainee programs are great as an orientation, as a pre-apprenticeship but when the project is over usually the trainee is over.  It doesn’t lead to anything.

If you’re willing to do a pilot project, you can count us in.  It would be the kind of thing where we could actually help develop this workforce of tomorrow.  What Schneider is realizing and what JB Hunt is realizing and what the ports around the country is realizing is there are two things happening simultaneously.  It’s the ultimate ugly perfect storm where we’re treating a lot of folks and we’re expanding at the time.   We really need to keep our eye on the ball with how to do this and knock down some of those barriers that we have created over the years to make this thing work better.

I have to give a lot of credit to the Federal Highway Administration.  Whey the realized initially when they said vets who come out we’ll just give them a road test and waive the written test then they realized that was backwards and they reversed it and said we’ll just give them the written test.  That is good thinking.

We have a ways to go and I think we need to communicate.  Groups like Maria’s and groups like Fast Port and Transport are good ways to get this good information across.  Also the Racks are a nice way to get the education community involved.

 

Maria:

Greylen, how many apprentices do you have at Schneider?

 

Greylen:

I’m not at liberty to say but I can tell you we have quite a few.  It is definitely something that we are working on to increase our employment flow.

 

Maria:

I think one of the benefits that has been touted is that retention improved with apprenticeship situations.

 

Greylen:

Absolutely.  We have found that individuals when they are in the apprenticeship program they are serious minded and they have a career path.

 

Bill:

Not only is it the retention piece that is important but it’s the continuum of the corporate culture and the elements of safety and of on-the-job training that doesn’t just end when the apprenticeship ends but it’s a continuum of training.  Companies like Schneider and JB Hunt and UPS also bring in technology all the time.  Their workforce is very in-tune with that.

One thing I will mention to you Greylen is there is more and more money being made available to scale upgrades.  Even if your folks are journey level drives or expert drives and you bring a new technology in that could lead to greater efficiencies, maybe even more hires, that is something that the Workforce Investment Opportunity and Workforce Development Board can consider for funding.

 

Greylen:

Thank you.

 

Maria:

I think a lot of these questions may not relate to some of our audience here.

 

Bill:

What we can do Maria is if these questions aren’t really relevant to this group why don’t I respond to them in writing and we can just post them.

 

Maria:

That sounds great.

 

Bill:

I don’t want to hold everybody up.  I know you guys have snow to plow and stuff like that to do.

 

Maria:

Can we talk about what the next steps would be with Mass DOT?  Tina, should we just say what can we do next?

 

Bill:

I would say the first thing we should do is bring on the state director.  If we were to do a pilot project in Massachusetts or New Jersey or New York or someplace we bring on the folks who are local there and we see how we can bring some pilot projects in.  I love pilot projects.  I think that’s the only way to go.

 

Maria:

There is a pilot project between Federal Highways and the American Transportation Road Builders Association that they are doing in five cities across the country.  Tina are you involved in that?

 

Tina:

No I’m not.  I cover Massachusetts and Vermont.

 

Maria:

Ok.  Maybe that’s something we need to make sure that there is a connection between Department of Labor and the folks that are running that.  I think it’s Tony Fersses’ group.

 

Tina:

Yes.

 

Maria:

I can email Jennie Sue and make that connection for them.  Maybe that is a presentation that needs to be made to that group.  I’m not sure when that initiative is starting.

 

Tina:

That sounds good.

You said there is a pilot program with the Transportation Road Builders Association.  Is it possible that Massachusetts could mirror that or I’d have to take a look at it?

 

Maria:

Yeah I guess so.  I can send you some information.  I have your email here.

 

Bill:

Good.

 

Maria:

Greylen, what do we need to do for our Midwest to expanding these apprenticeships in the trucking industry?   Bill has forwarded me a few of the models of the program structures for the CDLs.  Is that shareable?

 

Greylen:

Are you talking about the models that we’re trying to put in play in Illinois?

 

Maria:

No.  I’m talking about the programs that have been registered already.  Bill you sent me some PDFs of the different structures.

 

Bill:

Are those work processes of the on-the-job learning and the related instruction pieces?

 

Maria:

Yes.

 

Bill:

Those are pretty generic.  I’m sure folks in the trucking industry are very familiar with that anyway.  The way you expand and the way you talk about the Midwest and Illinois is really work with the Illinois folks.  There are different rules and regulations for different states.  The Illinois folks have everything that you have Maria so they would have that there.

I would think the best thing to do is, and I’m not sure if Schneider is a national program or a national guidelines standard.  I think it’s a national program.  You could just expand there with no real difficulty.

I would also mention a last piece that is very important.  Get the state trucking associations involved?  Those are groups that could actually do a few things.  One is they could apply for US Department of Labor monies. They could apply for pre-apprenticeship programs.  They could apply for wage subsidization and so on.  I would think the state entities are important.

If you’re like the state of Georgia, we have had the shortage of our lifetime. We are getting to the point where our state is willing to pay almost anything to do get individuals trained.  The only obstacle, like you mentioned, is the insurance and time behind the wheel.

 

Greylen:

Are you in Atlanta?  Is that where you are when you’re not in Florida?

 

Bill:

Yes I am.

 

Greylen:

The reason I’m asking that is I’m due to come to Atlanta the end of February to collaborate with our folks down there.  It is around the 27th or 28th or first of March timeframe.  I would love to sit down and talk with you.

 

Bill:

I’ll be here.  Send me your itinerary and we’ll work sometimes out.  I would love to see you.  If there are any resources here in Georgia or in the country that you want me to try to gather, I would be glad to put them together for you.

 

Greylen:

I would appreciate that a lot.  My information is there.

 

Maria:

I can send it to you.

 

Greylen:

Awesome.

 

Maria:

I can send you each other’s information.

 

Bill:

That would be great.  Feel free to keep me on your contact list and I would be glad to communicate with you.  When you’re in town, in either place, we’ll make it a point to get together and see how we can make things work.

 

Greylen:

Maria and I were just in Chicago on the south side working with the CDL Shortage Taskforce.  And Dave Harrison was there and gave a short overview of what his prime directive was now that he’s not with JB Hunt anymore.

 

Bill:

Correct.  And their particular outfit Fast Port and Barbara Murray’s Transport actually are coming in with money.  They can help pay for some of these things that we talk about.  That would be a good thing.

Definitely come and look me up in February.  We’ll get together and whatever audience we need to gather we will.

 

Greylen:

Thank you so much.

 

Maria:

Bill, I want you to know that Greylen is pretty much a leader.  You should consider him a leader.  He’s on our advisory board, as well as through our advisory board he’s met the other regional directors and he’s been working with them in Memphis and Long Beach.  He is everywhere.

Of course, he’s working with the WIOA people in Chicago and he has a partnership with them.  It’s the Cook Work Force Partnership.  I never get that name right.

 

Greylen:

I know they change it and they’ve got a new branding.  You have it right though.

 

Bill:

This is good.  We have the same type of thing going on in Georgia where we have a logistics taskforce which comes under the Department of Economic Development which also has the WIOA money. We are looking at the same issues.  I think it would be great to have you talk to us and to them.  If we’re able to get to Savannah we can go and talk to those folks out there because that is where the group is headquartered.

Stuff sitting at the port doesn’t do anybody any good.  Like you said before, if the trucks aren’t rolling the economy stops.

 

Greylen:

Absolutely.

 

Bill:

And we’re sensitive to that; believe me.

 

I do appreciate that.  Thank you Maria for putting us together.

 

Maria:

Sure.

Ann or Tina any other questions?

 

Ann:

No.

 

Tina:

I didn’t really talk but I’m really grateful.  I’m really grateful for having this discussion.  Thank you so much.

 

Ann:

Same here.  I appreciate it.  Thanks for including us.

 

Greylen:

Absolutely.

 

Bill:

Thank you everybody.

 

Amy:

If you have any questions about our work with colleges or secondary schools across the country please feel free to contact me.  Maria can give you my contact information.

 

Bill:

It’s actually on the presentation I did last week.  Send all the questions to Amy!

Thank you everybody.

 

Maria:

Ann can you email me your contact information?

 

Ann:

Yes.  Do I have an email address for you somewhere?

 

00:48:53

Maria:

It’s just maria.hart@wisc.edu.  I will introduce you to some of the people in your area too.

 

Ann:

Perfect.  Thank you.

 

Bill:

Ann, one more thing.  The presentation from last week is actually on your website correct?

 

00:49:21

Maria:

We emailed it to the registrants.  We will have a page up today with that information.  Then when we send out our newsletter to all our people they will know that all this information is up.

 

 

Bill:

Sounds great.

Everybody enjoy the snow.  I miss it so much!